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Sangavi

These plagues are an act of God and are nothing new. They have been happening in every century. After sometime, some cure would be invented for it and then it would no longer be called incurable.

In each and every era this has been happening and will continue to happen. Sad but true. Man cannot do much when it originates from the hand of God.

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Progman

If you gave any thorough scientist a laboratory and millions of dollars, by doing computer simulation and strange experimentation on animals, as well as illegal unconsented and unwitting experimentation on humans in controlled environments, why could someone not create a new plague.  Artificial intelligence could help find seemingly "natural" possibilities.  In fact, those with wealth and power could do this for a relatively small amount of their net worth if it were convenient to maintaining power and control.

I agree that it is an act of God.  But that does not mean that God has not made technological resources for humans to have ultimately caused what he had willed anyway.

Claiming that this was done by rogue intelligence agents does not change that it is still an act of God.  Same goes for so called "natural disasters".  After all if God did not will it so that technology which could cause large disturbances in the environment, then militaries would not have capability to induce them.

Despite technology, God can still run the show in infinitely different ways, without any scientific method of measuring the effects.  Even if physics and the universe have a finite depth, it could be impossible for a variety of reasons e.g. Heisenberg and so forth, for us to ever determine them all, not to mention there can be an unseen influence operating completely outside the realm of scientific measurement.  Any creation can never completely understand itself, if the creator did not allow it, and is left with merely the choice of believing in the creator.  We can program with the computer simulations of agents capable of fully understanding the simulation, or we can make it impossible for them to ever do so.

My point is that to deny extremely sophisticated technology exists is wishful thinking, and to completely ignore two world wars that happened long ago.  Ever since Pharoah small elite groups of humans have been trying to gain advantages over each other thinking that they could "play God" and they have all risen as fast as they have fallen. And so there is no conflict with the idea of an act of God.

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akkaldama
6 hours ago, Sangavi said:

These plagues are an act of God and are nothing new. They have been happening in every century. After sometime, some cure would be invented for it and then it would no longer be called incurable.

In each and every era this has been happening and will continue to happen. Sad but true. Man cannot do much when it originates from the hand of God.

Act of god? 🙄, and is it nature of  'God' act/punish innocents, childs also?

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Progman

Well the thing is that this life is a test.  There is absolutely no justice in this world or short life which is filled with hardship and tragedy.  So considering that judgement and eternal compensation is in the hereafter, those who die innocently or prematurely will have had short or simpler tests and will still be judged fairly.

Whether you agree with this view is up to you.  But a consistent and coherent explanation is in order.  Seeing tragedy in the world does not make the creator cruel or unjust.  A few short years compared to eternity is not a comparison.

God had no beginning and has no end.  The human soul has a beginning and no end.  This world has both a beginning and an end.  An eternal and absolute God who is perfectly just if creating new eternal objects would have to sort them based on a criterion - to eternal paradise or damnation. Hence a temporary creation to make it so a binary result can be obtained.

You can study religion and people have for centuries, it is philosophically sound at least in it's original form.  I am trying to convey a small amount of the key parts of this knowledge from a reverse perspective just to quickly increase understanding.  Even if nothing in the world is free, you always have a free choice to believe in the creator or not, until you die.

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CodeExplorer

If there is a God, he is is cruel, including the hell fire he created.
 

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yano65bis

hi

@codeExplorer : who is cruel is man not God  ! look around you  there are lot of wars ,killing everywhere , poverty etc.. all these things are made by humans !!! even covid-19 is suspicious though. !

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CodeExplorer

@yano65bis: Everything that exist was created by God, right?
 

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Extreme Coders

My personal belief is that the entire world around is fake - just a simulation. Our universe does have a creator and that creator may or may not be God. The pain & and struggles we face means nothing in the greater sense. We are nothing more than a programmed object. Even the pain or happiness is nothing but programmed feelings.

For example, we design computer games with their own story-lines. In one such game there may be a person who is put under immense pain. There are many movies in which innocents die due to no fault of theirs. However we are not concerned since we know the pain is virtual. It's how we designed the game or movie.

In a similar sense, our creator knows the pain we humans/animals face is also virtual. In the real world (which is not this world) this doesn't matter. Even the concept of life and death is fake. Death is simply a way of putting an expiry date.

Is is possible to know the real truth?

I guess it is. But once humans try to understand the real truth there will be no wars anywhere. There will be no struggle for wealth, fame and power. After all why run after wealth, fame & power in a fake world. If there is something that needs to be done is to try to find out the real truth and escape from this fake world.

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Sangavi
17 minutes ago, Extreme Coders said:

My personal belief is that the entire world around is fake - just a simulation. Our universe does have a creator and that creator may or may not be God. The pain & and struggles we face means nothing in the greater sense. We are nothing more than a programmed object. Even the pain or happiness is nothing but programmed feelings.

For example, we design computer games with their own story-lines. In one such game there may be a person who is put under immense pain. There are many movies in which innocents die due to no fault of theirs. However we are not concerned since we know the pain is virtual. It's how we designed the game or movie.

In a similar sense, our creator knows the pain we humans/animals face is also virtual. In the real world (which is not this world) this doesn't matter. Even the concept of life and death is fake. Death is simply a way of putting an expiry date.

Is is possible to know the real truth?

I guess it is. But once humans try to understand the real truth there will be no wars anywhere. There will be no struggle for wealth, fame and power. After all why run after wealth, fame & power in a fake world. If there is something that needs to be done is to try to find out the real truth and escape from this fake world.

Yes the whole world is a huge illusion!

Man should learn to seek the Almighty and gain enlightenment. Then he will know his own "god nature". That is the basis of all religions. Indian religions are clear about this aspect. We will all wake up one day from this dream and realize that we wasted our time in mundane activities instead of seeking out the Divine!

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Progman

Such a diverse set of beliefs from so many religions and cultures will be found on this international forum :).  Probably nearly all the world falls under something along the lines of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism, or has turned science into a religion, even computer science despite it being labeled Athiesm.  Higher intelligence leads to questions of why are we here, what is the purpose of life, etc.  Its useful to know the basics of how others think and believe given there is not too much top level information to digest.  Of course you need to seek out authentic information as so much propaganda has seen at times each group demonizing every other one which propagates in the media.  I have found religion in all its forms is preferences towards peace and harmony, depth and understanding.  However religious identity and its associated culture go outside from it, become their own phenomenon and are full of hate, intolerance, negativity, misguidance, things that fuel even wars.  So learn about religions, not about the people who claim to follow them.

Not surprising that deep philosophical thinking would emerge in this crisis.  The best approach is to educate and not argue or quarrel.  Eventually you can sort out the inflammatory from the authentic out there, and really appreciate or at least understand people, their beliefs and motivations better.

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CodeExplorer

Different backgrounds, most people stand with the religion they born with.
Discussions are okay, as long they are in civilized manner.

I would rather believe in God than believed that everything is an illusion.
And how is supposed to prove you something if you stand on the premise that everything is an illusion???
 

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Sangavi
1 hour ago, CodeExplorer said:

I would rather believe in God than believed that everything is an illusion.
And how is supposed to prove you something if you stand on the premise that everything is an illusion???

A dream when you sleep is by definition an illusion. But as long as you are the experiencer of the dream when asleep you feel everything as if it truly happens in the dream. If a dog runs after you in the dream you will flee for your life, if someone says something bad to you in the dream you feel the hurt emotion.

Even Adi Sankaracharya could not escape the delusory state of this world of Maya.

"It is not indeed possible for you to perceive your Self as related to avidya, at the same moment (that your Self cognises avidya); for, the cogniser (Self) acts at the moment as the percipient of avidya. Neither can there be a (separate) .cogniser of the relation between the cogniser (the Self) and avidya, nor a separate cognition of, that (relation) ; for then you would commit the fallacy of infinite regress (anavastha). _ If the relation between the cogniser (the Self) and the cognised could be cognised, another cogniser should be supposed to exist; then another cogniser of that cogniser ; ,then another of that again; and so on; and thus the series would necessarily be endless."

This is the state of the dream world. So I agree with @Extreme Coders

In simple language it means

In any act of knowing, the ‘knower’ and the object known’ have to be separate from each other. They cannot be the same. In order for us to know maya, it has to be separate from us. Individuals like us are the products of maya and we are all posited within the domain of maya. Maya and we individuals are not separate from each other, just as chocolate and a bear-shaped chocolate candy are not different from each other.

As we are identical with maya, we cannot know maya. For this reason, maya is not only unknowable; it is inexplicable as well (anirvachaniya).

Edited by Sangavi (see edit history)
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Progman

If you dont want to get sick or want to get over it very quickly:

1) salt water flush with non iodized sea or Himalayan salt.  Cleaning out your intestine and colon which is a cesspool when you have a virus has at least for me practically immune to influenza like and other viruses.  You need to make sure to properly learn do this one though as it's not easy and vomiting is possible until you get used to it.

2) black seed and nigella sativa oil

3) apple cider vinegar, raw unfiltered, if you can still find it anywhere

4) turmeric and ginger

5) garlic and onion, dont worry about the smell when you are staying home

6) lemon, lime and citrus fruits

7) basically detox diet with fresh vegetables and fruits, eggs, chicken breast, olives, almonds, pumpkin seeds

😎 green tea, peppermint tea, etc

Anyway it's a great time to detox your body if you have the resources available to do so.  Sure this advice won't guarantee but it minimizes the risk by maximizing the immune system.  Bacterial infections tend to be far nastier than viral ones.  Viruses die easily in a strong healthy body.  Only your body can kill them after all.  But bacterial ones can kill you without the right antibiotic.  It doesn't matter how detoxed you are.

There are certainly all sorts of ideas and techniques but these are ones your local supermarket or drug store which are open even in lockdown will have.

If you are immunocompromised or have diabetes, high blood pressure, etc more precautions needed to avoid infection.

Even though it's not practical for all people to follow this, and the medical establishment refuses to acknowledge Ancient yet highly simple effective tools like these, probably this virus would never have become a pandemic if everyone did use them.  You would be surprised how much garbage is clogging up the average intestine, liver or blood stream on a modern diet.  The body is a great filter but it gets abused as it has a daily processing limit that gets constantly exceeded.

Edited by Progman (see edit history)
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Xyl2k
16 hours ago, akkaldama said:

Act of god? 🙄, and is it nature of  'God' act/punish innocents, childs also?

If there is a god somewhere it's a god of war (and it's not kratos).

Anyway, fews interesting ressources:
Covid19 in japan (map): https://coromap.info/
Covid19 in switzerland (map): https://www.corona-data.ch/
Covid in france (map): https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/
Research material released by China: https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/11/3/210/htm
thought from MIT: We’re not going back to normal: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615370/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing-18-months/
Corona tracker for BBS software: https://www.phenomprod.com/

Wanna help? you can start folding https://foldingathome.org/covid19/
And 3d print visors for your local doctors and hospitals who are in very terrible condition.. https://blog.prusaprinters.org/from-design-to-mass-3d-printing-of-medical-shields-in-three-days/

remember: there is no cure

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whoknows

Lockdowns have changed the way Earth moves

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00965-x
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Taitor
15 hours ago, Progman said:

1) salt water flush with non iodized salt.  Cleaning out your intestine and colon which is a cesspool when you have a virus has at least for me practically immune to influenza like and other viruses.  You need to make sure to properly learn do this one though as it's not easy and vomiting is possible until you get used to it.

Suggestions like these are very dangerous since they can kill people with certain diseases. For instance, this idea could turn out to be fatal in hypertensive or renal patients who are supposed to be on low salt intake!

There are many other diseases where the intake of salt in quantities like that could kill!

15 hours ago, Progman said:

2) black seed and nigella sativa oil

3) apple cider vinegar, raw unfiltered, if you can still find it anywhere

4) turmeric and ginger

5) garlic and onion, dont worry about the smell when you are staying home

6) lemon, lime and citrus fruits

7) basically detox diet with fresh vegetables and fruits, eggs, chicken breast, olives, almonds, pumpkin seeds

😎 green tea, peppermint tea, etc

All these not only have no proven value and are quite ineffective against COVID-19!

 

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Progman
17 hours ago, Taitor said:

Suggestions like these are very dangerous since they can kill people with certain diseases. For instance, this idea could turn out to be fatal in hypertensive or renal patients who are supposed to be on low salt intake!

There are many other diseases where the intake of salt in quantities like that could kill!

All these not only have no proven value and are quite ineffective against COVID-19!

 

Except if you balance the salt (which must be sea salt or Himalayan salt not table salt) and water ratio properly to that of your bodies which is 0.9g/L, the salt will not go into the body, nor will water rush towards the salt, it will merely pass through the body.  This is hardly dangerous and has been being used for centuries, an ancient Ayurvedic remedy.  It is dangerous if you do not know what you are doing.  I have done it routinely for years, so I can testify that it works.  Certainly some people would not want to do this.  And stupid things like soy sauce and other nonsense of excessive salt intake have caused deaths or great bodily damage.  That's why I mentioned proper learning requiring research.  Certainly like you say people with some types of medical conditions especially of the kidney or even hypertension might want to think about using laxatives or other tools which are geared towards their condition.  This is not useful for everyone, and only someone healthy and very wise about their body should attempt it.

For most people 1 tablespoon of salt and a liter of water is the historically normal amount and ratio.  My method is to use 2 tablespoons of salt with a liter of water which is considered about twice as much salt as necessary, but for my particular condition its necessary and not harmful.  Additionally some salt will often not dissolve depending on brand and remain in the cup which is the reason for slightly more (1g/L while 0.9g/L is ingested).  After an hour or so, or when the diarrhea hits the toilet, I drink 3 liters of water over another hour, about a liter every 20 minutes.  And stay very near to the toilet.  It will push everything out of your intestines in a dramatic way.  Probably I retained 1 to 1.5 liters of water which I will urinate out over the course of the day and obvious has balanced out any salt intake if it occurred.  If you have healthy intestines, doing this on rare occasions would be wise as it might interfere with your microbiome.  I have helped several people with this process, and vomiting out the salt water solution was always the hardest part as the stomach does not understand it, so I recommend chewing gum to get through it psychologically.  It not only gave them great relief, they could also verify that it without a doubt detoxed disgusting fecal matter that had likely been building up in the intestines.  Most people eat a pretty lousy diet these days so its hardly surprising.  A good salt flush goes from solid stool, to brown liquid, to finally yellow liquid from bile in the small intestines or clear liquid of the water.  Anyway as you can see, it is indeed complicated, so do quality research before trying it.  I have been to multiple gastroenterologists, even a general surgeon and not a single one has done anything besides written down and acknowledged the salt flush, one merely mentioned it sounded a bit "harsh".  But they never told me to stop nor that it was dangerous.

Of course anything that boosts your immune system will fight COVID-19.  Its a virus so I gave general advice to enhance the immune system.  There are no cures for viruses out there for the most part - even anti-virals generally stop reproduction of the virus and its rare they can actually kill the virus directly.  The classic "cure" is out there, its called 2 weeks and your immune system building a longer term immunity.  No experts in the world are going to refute anything I just put there.  They might not acknowledge these things, but I think I can find even mainstream medical health websites which will acknowledge every single one of these things.  This is not obscure stuff, and these are things you can find in most parts of the world.  E.g. https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/boost-immune-system#1 

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Eating fruits and veggies keeps your immune system strong.

Fact. Mom and dad were right when they told you to eat your fruits and vegetables. Studies show that people who eat a lot of them get sick less. The nutrients in them can help your immune system fight viruses and bacteria.

 

Edited by Progman (see edit history)
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Progman

The medical industry has not disproven anything either on any of these things which is why they always stay extremely quiet.  And they don't want people to have the information in general as they want everything in the proven realm only.

But the fact that 1000 year old items are never investigated when it would be trivial to prove or disprove a great deal about them is basically showing that the health care system has its money aligned towards patents and profits and really has no respect for any cheap products readily available to people.

This is why so many people in the world are willing to try all these alternatives, some which end up being bad information and harm them.  Most of us here are good with searching and studying information and deciding after a thorough investigation if its true or not.  But some people listen to fads or social media jokes, etc.  But the medical system itself is shackled by a certain kind of corporate stupidity and corruption, and the doctors are frustrated by it but they won't go against a system that provides them a good livelihood.  Doctors that are willing to do anything to think outside the box and help someone are only found on television shows like Dr. House, in real life, the system will bring the hammer down, and no hospital or administrator will be there to save them.  That system consists of huge pharmaceutical companies which have powerful lobbying in politics and health care, huge insurance companies also with vast resources, etc.  This problem is thoroughly documented in media and pretty much common knowledge.

Edited by Progman (see edit history)
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Gorina
9 hours ago, Progman said:

Except if you balance the salt and water ratio properly to that of your bodies which is 0.9g/L, the salt will not go into the body, nor will water rush towards the salt, it will merely pass through the body.  This is hardly dangerous and has been being used for centuries, an ancient Ayurvedic remedy.  It is dangerous if you do not know what you are doing.  I have done it routinely for years, so I can testify that it works.  Certainly some people would not want to do this.  And stupid things like soy sauce and other nonsense of excessive salt intake have caused deaths or great bodily damage.  That's why I mentioned proper learning requiring research.

 

On 4/1/2020 at 5:11 AM, Progman said:

1) salt water flush with non iodized salt.  Cleaning out your intestine and colon which is a cesspool when you have a virus has at least for me practically immune to influenza like and other viruses.  You need to make sure to properly learn do this one though as it's not easy and vomiting is possible until you get used to it.

Dude, 0.9% NaCl solution is also called Normal Saline and does not lead to diarrhea lol, however much you drink. It is isotonic with plasma and body fluids. So there is no way that it could possibly "flush" your intestines.

On the other hand, anyone having a condition where fluid and salt restriction is required could very well die if they tried out this suggestion!

Making statements like that and posting it openly on web forums like these is very bad since it leads to others taking advantage of it and making a mockery out of tuts4you in the end!

On another site I had a certain person with a slightly different nick  ;) suggest Valium for back pain. That is the most ridiculous thing that I ever came across, if not outright illegal and dangerous as Valium is a highly controlled medication in many countries!

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Progman

Look up salt water flush in google there are hundreds of mainstream sites also describing and acknowledging this.  Notice I said non iodized salt which is found with Himalayan salt and grey sea salt otherwise what you said would be true.  The salts I am talking about are not sodium chloride/table salt/NaCl and iodized salts and these would be very harmful.  Everyone knows this works if you ever prepare for a colonoscopy some sort of salt flush prescription satchet will be given by a doctor.  Most of these salts are magnesium or calcium based.  The facts are not on your side.  Now you are strawmanning unnecessarily as I clearly stated non iodized.  The implication is that its either sea salt or Himalayan salt not table salt but I have been more explicit as I realize not everyone is an expert in this area.

They even sell salt flushes at pharmacies in various parts of the world.  The only point made is about people with certain types of renal issues as that would be very dangerous for sure unless it's something where large volumes of fluids are beneficial e.g. small kidney stones.  Bad cases of hypertension would also be dangerous in case salt did leak out of the gut into the bloodstream.  But these cases are in most people mild and so the point here is so rare it was not really worth all this discussion.

Please let us not share propaganda sites.  The troublemakers and rabble rousers can never resist.  I am happy to provide authentic sources proving what I have said is legitimate. Although 5 minutes of research will be sufficient for anyone to check.

Medically reviewed by a doctor: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321680 which basically means it comes with a maximal amount of cautionary warnings

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A common salt water flush recipe involves mixing non-iodized salt with water by:

adding 1 to 2 teaspoons of non-ionized salt, preferably sea salt or pink Himalayan sea salt, to 1 liter of water, and stirring until dissolved

drinking the mixture over a period of 5 or so minutes

A salt water flush is often done on an empty stomach, for instance, first thing in the morning, to produce several bowel movements throughout the day.

If a person tries this remedy, they should make sure that there is a bathroom nearby for most of the day.

If I had a virus I suspected to be in the gastrointestinal tract, I would definetely do a salt flush as a single one is typically enough to eliminate it from that part of your body so your immune system would focus its efforts on respiratory or other areas.  That is all I am saying.  Seeing as how this virus is most dangerous to immunocompromised and elderly who are likely not going to be able to do this, it is merely a convenient way for healthy and younger people to wash the sickness out faster.  Which could save lives by not spreading the disease to those who are vulnerable.  Let's move on to other coronavirus related topics please...

Edited by Progman (see edit history)
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Gorina
5 hours ago, Progman said:

Notice I said non iodized salt which is found with Himalayan salt and grey sea salt otherwise what you said would be true. 

The term "non-iodized" salt is used in reference to Table Salt or NaCl. No other salts are specifically iodized or iodinated for human consumption.

 

5 hours ago, Progman said:

The facts are not on your side.  Now you are strawmanning unnecessarily as I clearly stated non iodized.  The implication is that its either sea salt or Himalayan salt not table salt but I have been more explicit as I realize not everyone is an expert in this area.

Himalayan salt as well as sea salt both contain NaCl (sodium chloride) as the major component responsible for their salty flavor. I suggest that since you are a non-medical person you should do your research carefully before proposing remedies which are not just dangerous but FATAL in many cases when taken by patients with certain conditions.

5 hours ago, Progman said:

Medically reviewed by a doctor: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321680 which basically means it comes with a maximal amount of cautionary warnings

That is not an official site. In fact you can see that within the space of 3 sentences they have typos where at one place they say "non-iodized" and at another they say "non-ionized".

Unfortunately here, you are clearly wrong and trying to find articles to support your mistakes. You cannot find them since what you suggested could KILL people with cardiac and/or renal issues and who have been placed on salt and water restriction by their doctor.

This reminds me of an example where an US president suggested the use of fish food/medicine to cure COVID which subsequently killed someone when they actually followed the advice. This is another such example of a dangerous proposition.

All this is just giving fodder to people who take advantage of your posts to make a mockery of tuts4you. Unfortunately in this case, you are totally wrong @Progman

MODS, are you all awake? :D

 

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Progman
1 hour ago, Gorina said:

Himalayan salt as well as sea salt both contain NaCl (sodium chloride) as the major component responsible for their salty flavor. I suggest that since you are a non-medical person you should do your research carefully before proposing remedies which are not just dangerous but FATAL in many cases when taken by patients with certain conditions.

That is not an official site. In fact you can see that within the space of 3 sentences they have typos where at one place they say "non-iodized" and at another they say "non-ionized". 

The two or so percent of other salts is enough to make it work, in fact I would imagine non-iodized table salt might work but I would not try it when high quality salt products are readily available.  Please kindly stop your April Fools prank, typos are found even in well respected media outlets all the time, obviously you are clearly wrong:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_News_Today

Quote

Medical News Today is a web-based outlet for medical news, targeted at both physicians and the general public. All posted content is available online (>250,000 articles as of January 2014), and the earliest available article dates from May 2003.

The site has been owned by Healthline Media since 2016.[1] The business office for the site is located in Brighton, East Sussex, UK, and a second office is maintained near Manchester.

As of September 2019 it was the #3 most visited health site in the United States. [2] As of October 2019, it had a global ranking by Alexa of 869 and a United States ranking of 440. [3]

That article is

Quote

Medically reviewed by Debra Rose Wilson, PhD, MSN, RN, IBCLC, AHN-BC, CHT on April 30, 2018 — Written by Lori Smith, BSN, MSN, CRNP

 

Edited by Progman (see edit history)
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  • Teddy Rogers changed the title to Coronavirus (COVID-19)

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