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LCF-AT

Installing Win 7 problem

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scc23456
1 hour ago, LCF-AT said:

Anyhow I am still confused by your infos whether I can use both card versions SSD / PCIe types or not.Just wanna choose the right type I can plugin later on the mainboard which also works then.

So on the BIOS I think I found some menu to set something to AUTO / SATA / PCIe.Could be that this was something for this M.2 slot.This is just the bus / protocol type yes = Has nothing to do with the card itself?

Your mobo chipset (H310) supports both M2 SSD types (SATA and PCIe), as also described in the mobo specs "1 x M.2 Socket 3, with M Key, type 2242/2260/2280 storage devices support (both SATA & x2 PCIE mode)". That BIOS option is likely there to force a mode already, I can only guess to be useful for when the card is for some reason not properly detected or for shortening the detection time. Keep in mind that your PCIe mode will be PCIe 2.0 as already noted in the specs "Due to the Chipset limitation, when a M.2 device is installed in PCIe mode, the socket is set to PCIe 2.0." which translates in less transfer speed, up to 1000MB/s in theory (2 lanes, PCIe 2.0), I would expect more like 800 or so.

But since this is a desktop PC and since you already seem to want the SATA type of M2 SSD, I would also go with a normal 2.5" SSD disk format with a 3.5" adapter, as previously suggested.

Edited by scc23456 (see edit history)
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Progman

I have also found this quite a complicated mess as faster storage options have trickled out in a haphazard way.  AFAIK, basically there are 2 kinds of M2 SDD: PCIe and SATA.  PCIe is the more modern and faster of the two.  Now your motherboard can support one, the other or both.  This has nothing to do with the slot size or number of pins.  Its protocol and hardware interfacing as you point out.  So if your motherboard supports both which your BIOS makes it sounds like it can, then you can buy either kind and its probably a safe bet to just always leave it at auto regardless.  For motherboards that only support 1 or the other, you must buy the right type.  Probably opt for PCIe given the option.  Just make sure you buy a drive with the right socket type/pin configuration.  Somewhere in your motherboard manual should be a detailed description of all of these things.  Best to check the manufacturer website and read the docs before purchasing anything to see the supported options and any restrictions.

System restore has a maximum history (based on time and size/GB) and it does do some kind of clean up on occasion and 3rd party tools also can clean it up.  Some options for it are in the system control panel tool.

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LCF-AT

Hi Progman,

I did already post the link of my mainboard manual and the infos I found on them about that card slot here in this post...

https://forum.tuts4you.com/topic/41784-installing-win-7-problem/?do=findComment&comment=202467

M.2 socket 3
This socket allows you to install M.2 (NGFF) SSD modules.

•    This M.2 socket supports M Key and 2242/2260/2280 storage devices. 
•    When a device in SATA mode is installed on the M.2 socket, the SATA_2 port cannot be used.
•    Due to the Chipset limitation, when an M.2 device is installed in PCIe mode, the socket is set to PCIe 2.0. 

....that all are infos I found also same in my manual.I only just understand the card sizes infos with 2280 etc but not sure about the rest.What they mean with the mode?Do they mean just the BIOS mode?

Another picture...about SATA & NVMe

https://www.binarymove.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/sata-m.2-ssd-vs-nvme-m.2-ssd-1-678x381.png

In my manual above I cant see anything about NVMe only NGFF = M.2.Otherwise I can see this info on main page of ASUS about my mainboard...

1 x M.2 Sockel 3, , with M Key, type 2242/2260/2280 storage devices support (both SATA & x2 PCIE mode)*1

*1 When a device in SATA mode is installed on the M.2 socket, SATA_2 port cannot be used.
Due to the Chipset limitation, when a M.2 device is installed in PCIe mode, the socket is set
to PCIe 2.0.

...so can I use both SSD card types of SATA & PCIe or not?Or are they just talking about the mode of BIOS = SSD SATA can run in SATA mode or PCIe mode or auto mode?Sorry but I still dont know it for sure.Just would like to order one card which is the right and does match & work in my PC without to have any worry to send it back later because anything was wrong etc you know.SSD M.2 SATA PCIe Gen XY NVMe so who the heck should keep any overview about all those specs!?

PS: So I dont have a third party tool what could delete my restore points.Anyhow Windows does it by itself.I dont find any option about how long to keep restore points.Just see the option to create restore points & choosing them etc and how much space I can give for a drive and thats all.If you know some more how to setup the time / days how long windows should keep restore points then it would be nice if you could tell this more in detail.Otherwise I am just one of many who having that problem on Win 10 like I can see on internet without to get any solution.

greetz

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scc23456

M.2 (old equivalent name Next Generation Form Factor - NGFF), is a specification for expansion cards and their connectors.

M.2 connectors on the host (motherboard) are called sockets, a "Socket 3" type is a socket used for SSDs that use SATA or PCIe.

29aa11dd361e4aa9b55c0700d6f72c8a.jpg.992c45891be6f6b522d3b803d8a12e3a.jpgKeys are used to prevent insertion in a wrong socket. Most common for SSDs are B, M or B+M. 

SATA M2 SSDs are normally B+M "keyed" (they can be inserted in a B or M key socket)

PCIe M2 SSDs are normally M "keyed" (they can be inserted in a M key socket only)

This can be easily check from the drive specs and from the drive image comparing with the image attached.

2242/2260/2280 refers to the dimensions, these three are the standard ones,  "22" is the width mm, last two the length

Quote

1 x M.2 Sockel 3, , with M Key, type 2242/2260/2280 storage devices support (both SATA & x2 PCIE mode)*1

Your motherboard has an "M key" socket that will allow insertion of any SATA (B+M "keyed") or PCIe(M "keyed") SSD M2 card (if your socket would have been of B key type for eg, you could have not used a card keyed for M = PCIe, only SATA one). Also, the specs of the chipset (H310) in your motherboard and the specifications of the motherboard posted by you are clarifiying this: "both SATA & x2 PCIE mode". In my prev post I already explained the lower speed and why with PCIe and the BIOS option thing.

Maybe you could simply link the SSDs you have in mind.

 

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nonspin

Let me put it this way.. i think i know what type of OS you prefer.
Getting a NVMe to boot into Win7 is not only a challenge .. getting it to perform like
a NVMe is a completely different issue ..
Booting from your USB .. it's a chipset thing - well, you have to initialize the HUB in a specific order..
... and disable UEFI (enable CSM in BIOS) - so the USB either shows up twice (UEFI and normal).
or JUST Normal (without UEFI infront)

Again.. the M2 devices (especially the latest generations) require w10 to operate at desired speeds
and booting them into a reversing-friendly Win7 or make the device show up on Win7 .. good luck.

You are probably better off with a SSD if you prefer Win7

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LCF-AT

Hi again,

thanks again.So it means I can choose any types of SSD M.2 card now without to have fear thats its not working etc.I will check for some cards I can find / prefer and post some of them later.Maybe one more word about the limitations when choosing SATA or PCIe (in BIOS or as SSD card type?) just to be sure.Lets say I buy a SATA card type = SATA port disabled = I cant connect any device like HDD / CD-Rom on this port anymore, right or not?Just asking because nonspin told something about its sharing etc.Otherwise a SSD PCIe type card = socket is set to PCIe 2.0 (not sure what that means or whether its important to know).I only have 3 slots.One for graphic card = PCIe 3.0/2.0 = (I have a PCIe 2.0 graphic card connected).The other slots for other cards are PCIe 2.0 (I think).So has this any affection to something I need to know or keep in mind for later or so?

Ok about the OS thing.So as normal os I would like to use Win 10 now but in VM I wanna use Win 7 32 later again.Could this then bring trouble too when I try to install Win 7 image in VM?So if yes then I should better pick any older SATA card generation when this is then working with Win 7 in VM.So my main goal is it to get almost my basic stuff working at the end and not to get ultra turbo speed on read / write you know.I did backup my HDD using Windows copy mode (which really sucks) and got only 50 - 70 MB/s max.Not sure why it was so slow (Windows did check every file with bitdefender during copy process).Maybe I had better used any extern tool lile TerraCopy for that.

greetz

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Progman

I don't see any problem to install Win7 32/64 in VM inside a 64-bit Windows 10 and this has nothing to do with the kind of drives you use.

It sounds like if you use a SATA M2 SSD, then you are limited to only 2 SATA devices.  So only one of HDD or CDROM and the SATA M2 SDD (unless there is a 3rd SATA port - again have to check mobo manual).  I thought the costs are comparable for PCIe and SATA SSDs so there is no reason to not use PCIe if you are buying - SATA mode its mostly for people who wanted to reuse what they already had though I could be wrong.  If you use the PCIe M2 SDD, apparently there are no limitations on your other devices either.

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scc23456
Quote

Maybe one more word about the limitations when choosing SATA or PCIe (in BIOS or as SSD card type?) just to be sure.

The slower SATA speed compared to the PCIe in general, however in your case, because of the chipset limitation that cause that M2 port to operate as PCIe 2.0, this difference is not that big practically (you will get ~800MB/s with a PCIe or ~500 MB/s with a SATA)

Quote

Lets say I buy a SATA card type = SATA port disabled = I cant connect any device like HDD / CD-Rom on this port anymore, right or not?

One of your ports (SATA_2) will be disabled in this scenario and his resource used for the M2 SATA SSD, anything connected to that specific port will not work anymore, you'll have to connect to one of the remaining three.

Quote

Could this then bring trouble too when I try to install Win 7 image in VM?

No, guest OS only "sees" the virtualized hardware the host creates for him. Your configuration is main OS Windows and on top of that some type 2 hypervisor (VMware, VirtualBox), so nothing to worry about...

Out of curiosity, while it's perfectly fine to use an M2 SSD, any reason why you don't use a normal SSD? I only use these when I must (laptop and such), plus in your case the speed improvement is something like 2:1 with a PCIe M2 SSD or even none with a SATA one.

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LCF-AT

Hi,

ok so far now (I think so).When I choose any SATA card = SATA_2 port not usable anymore to connect any device on it.Choosing a PCIe card type = all fine.Also same for VM OS = all  fine without to get any issues installing it later.Good.What normal SSD do you mean?Something like 2.5?So I have seen such SSD types too which looking like 2.5 USB HDDs with some out case around but those I cant just install inside in any HDD slot without some extra 3.5 case around to fit like a 3.5 HDD etc you know.Otherwise I have seen this M.2 slot by reading the manual to connect any card into which was new for me and the idea just to plugin such a tiny card on it sounds good without to get any noises from.I just like the idea of using a card when I have already that slot in my mainboard and just putting the OS on it.

Good ok, so I think that all is clear now so far for me.I will check out some cards and post later some I found etc.Thank you.

greetz

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