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LCF-AT

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LCF-AT

Hi guys,

so I play with the thought to buy & use a moddern OS instead using XP anymore.Now I am not really up to date about all new OS and what I should choose etc and looking for some infos & advices what I should know.

- On the Net I found for example Windows 7 Fullversions with many diffrent prices starting with 20 Euro - 200 Euro.So is that 20 Euro version ok or are there any hidden hooks I can't see yet?Or should I better choose Windows 10?Found that for 50 Euro.I see that Win 7 will only updated till 2020.

- Now if I choose any new OS then I would like to pick a 64 bit version.I checked my PC with a tool what can check this and I got this results...

64.png

...if I see it right then I can choose a 64 bit version right?But what about the last Hardware Vir..so is this important or not later?

- What about my XP 32 bit apps I do use?Will they work or not on a 64 bit OS later?So I mean the apps where are no 64 bit versions out there.I heard Win 7 Pro has any XP Emulation or somehing so this is what or not?

Maybe I should test some 64 bit ISOs on VM first etc.So if you got some infos / hints for me then just tell me or anything I need to know before I choose the right one.

Thank you

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mrexodia

Generally your 32 bit apps will work (because of WOW64). However there is no guarantee that your applications will be fully compatible with the latest Windows version.

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kao

Officially, end user like you can't buy Win7 (without a new pc) anymore. All the offers you see are either very shady ones or aimed at corporations that have volume licensing deals. See http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-imposes-deadline-manufacteres-sell-windows-7-8-1-pcs. So it's better to use that money to buy better hardware.

Buying OS vs. obtaining it in "other ways": depends on your conscience. As far as I know, nobody is walking around houses checking if your home PC has legit OS or not.

Hardware virtualization is a CPU feature that speeds up VMs quite a lot. For example, VMWare can be quite slow on a CPU without hw virtualization. Again, more reasons to put money into a new HW.. 

All* 32bit applications work just fine in 64bits Windows

*if application used some insane OS-specific anti-cracking techniques, it might not work anymore. But apart from some crackmes, I can't remember any app that didn't work.

 

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Techlord

@LCF-AT : I agree with Bro @kao .

Personally, what I would recommend is Win 7 SP 1 x64 - can get it through "other means" ... :^

Though you can't buy it pre-installed, definitely you can buy it legit IF you INSIST that you want a legit license....

Personally, I did not throw away any of my old computers right from 2010.. They just sit in a corner of the cupboard and I take them out whenever they are needed for a particular purpose.

On one where I have XP SP2 (yes, SP2 and not SP3, as SP3 is a bigger bloat than SP3 - this was the BIG news when SP3 came out) - I find that many functions like WPA2 etc do not work natively without extra patches, but otherwise its VERY snappy. It is a dual core pentium with a decent graphics card. I find that I find lesser and lesser need for that OS now and find that the XP SP3 on my VMWare virt machine works for all my purposes now.

There's also a Win 8 x64 that a laptop came installed with. The ONLY reason I ever used it was to test prog for the last 2 years for compatibility with Win 8. Now we do it with a virt machine with Win 8 on it.

My MAIN OS remains Win 7 HOME BASIC. WHY not PRO ? I found that the PRO has unnecessary features taht contributes to a lot of bloat fo rthe home user. SO switched back to the Home Basic that the unit came installed with.

ONE thing thats good about Win 8 - its NATIVE support for the SSDs that does not seem to be there in the earlier OSes. SO its VERY fast if you have an SSD installed. Should be teh same for Win 10 as well.

Having said that, STILL I find that the Win 7 SP1 is good enough and performs pretty much the same after adding a few patches, for the SSD support.

So MY advice would be  - download a LEGIT copy of the Win 7 x64 direct from the MS servers. Buy just the serial for activation (if you insist on legit OS). Home Premium or Home Basic would be best. THEN, you can take a disk image of the installed Win 7 and THEN do the FREE UPGRADE to Win 10 and make an image of THAT as well. That way you have the best of both worlds - can fall back to Win 7 if you cannot tolerate Win 10 ! :thumbs:

 

 

 

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Extreme Coders

As kao said, You should invest in a new hardware first. 

Your current cpu does not support hardware virtualization which is quite important for running virtual machines.
Without hardware virtualization you cannot run 64 bit os in a vm (atleast for vmware/virtualbox).
32 bit guests would work fine but not 64.

Hence my recommendation would be to upgrade the hardware. You can think about the OS later.

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LCF-AT

Hi guys,

thanks for your answers so far.

So this I dont understand now.So you mean I buy Win7 64 bit Fullversion + Key pn DVD for 20 Euro on any Shop I can find on Net and then I cant use it?Or does it mean I cant update later to higher version of Windows 8 / 10 etc?What about the PC components so does it play also a role?So I mean I also have XP on CD and can install and use it on any PC I want and I think I can do same with the Win 7 DVD later or not?!

About Hardware virtualization.Where can I see it whether the CPU has it or not before buying a CPU or PC set?So I dont have it and maybe thats also a reason why my OS in VM is working so slow etc.Great!

Again,so why I cant buy a pre-installed Win7?So on all Shops I can find there do offer theier PC systems with pre installed Win 7 / 8 / 10 etc.

Ok thanks again guys but now I am more unsure what to do than before. :( Just wanted to use a newer OS in the hope no more to get any trouble like I get on XP with some stuff.Uhhmmm.

greetz

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Techlord

Hi @LCF-AT :

As you may be knowing, for Win 7 Home and Premium (but not for Pro versions, if I am right...) MS is offering FREE upgrade till 30 July 2016. I think maybe for Win 8 also I believe.

So what I suggested was, that ONE strategy would be to buy just eitehr a PC with Win 7 installed on it (would be an older model mostly I think) OR just buy a "serial" to register the Win 7 with, online, IF you insist on a legit OS (as per your conscience).

There is NO need to buy a DVD as the OS can be DIRECTLY downloaded from MS servers as an ISO file. When I last saw last month, even the Win 7 ISOs were available.

The MAIN issue with you using Win 7 later on with newer components would be that there may not be DRIVERS for your various components supporting Windows 7 (and older OSes like Win XP). Otherwise no one would be preventing you or me from installing even XP on newer computers !

Many a time, even in the past 4 years, I was unable to install XP on newer models of computers since there were NO DRIVERS available for the various components.

So one thing you would want to SERIOUSLY ensure if you buy a new computer now is, to DOWNLOAD and keep the drivers for various OS-es from the vendors' websites while they STILL support them.

For example, after a few months, its possible that you would be seeing ONLY drivers for Windows 10 for most newer computers.

So you want to DOWNLOAD AND KEEP the drivers for Win 7 and 8 also, for whichever computer you buy, just in case they remove them later on !

So now I think you understand WHY you CANNOT simply install Windows XP on whichever PC you please, just because you have the CD :) ?

Of course, thats the reason why I use the XP only on Virtual Machines, since the abstraction layer is provided by the VMs for the underlying hardware.

So, unless you can write your own drivers for ALL the components that don't have support for the Win XP for example, just because you have the CD, we can't install the XP on newer systems.

Of course, some some "features" of the components may not be supported by the older OSes at all - for example, no NATIVE support for SSDs on Win XP...

Hardware Virtualization : CPU-Z is a standard program that shows all the details... Its free as well. But you said you wanted to know BEFORE you  buy the system... Maybe you can simply look at the specs or just ask. Frankly, nearly all the newer systems come WITH it (For the last five years at least, nearly all reasonable models come WITH it... )

This is how it looks in CPU-Z :

c85625d688ece7481d66.jpg

So you can download the CPU-Z prog and see whether your PRESENT system has it or not. Hardware based virtualization has to enabled in the BIOS, if not already enabled.

If you have shops where they are selling comps with pre-installed Win 7  then great ! I do suspect that they COULD be older models that do not support Windows 10. Please check that out carefully !

You do not want to buy a system that will get obsolete in another year !!! Otherwise, since the upgrade is free, they would be selling Win 10 (of course, if its to do with their licensing issues then its fine) but YOU want to make SURE that YOU do not buy a very old model !

If you ask me, my FINAL WORD would be : Spend a GOOD amount of money and invest in a decent system now. Forget about the OS for now. See that you have a decent motherboard with (preferably) a few expansion slots. Good graphics card, among other things. Hardware VTx support, as you would be using Virtual Machines most of the time.

I thinnk thats about it.

Please take about 3-4 days to think at a minimum before actually buying the system !

 

Good luck !

 

Edited by Techlord (see edit history)

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ilya01

Hmm, but how are you going to buy windws 7? Retail-license will be very difficult to buy on the Internet now. It is a good chance that you buy Mak or OEM license.

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kao

Again - if you buy a "Windows 7 license" for 20 EUR from some shady webpage (like hxxp://www.vanskeys.com/windows-7-professional-p-981.html), you'll get a serial number which will most likely work and appear like it's legit. But if BSA or any other anti-piracy organization check the paperwork, you'll be screwed. So, save that money and get better hardware instead, then install modded BIOS from mydigitallife and OEM version of Windows.

It will look the same, it will work the same and it will be equally (il-)legal.

My 2 cents.

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Techlord

Yes, as bro @kao says and as I said above in my lengthy post, its better to focus right now on HARDWARE and then think of the OS later.

As a rule of thumb, in the US, if you spend around $1500 for an assembled system, you can create a system that will not be [too] outdated for at least 3 years...

Maybe you can proceed in a similar fashion in Germany as well when shopping for your new system.

I find that the PC Magazines (which you can download online for free from any "sharing " site , pretty much discusses all the specs for the newer machines.

Just keep in mind that the reviews in some of the PC magazines for the comp systems or components may not be strictly true, and maybe "skewed" in favour of the vendors who give the reviewers freebies and other goodies...

Good luck !

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CodeExplorer

Sharing my Windows 7 activation experiences:
When I buyed the laptop they give me a "Windows 7 Home Prem 0A" key,
The key len is 29. (29 chars string).
You need to activate online the key!
And I've sucefully registered Windows 7 SP1 64 bits,
so I guess that the key will work for any Windows 7 version (but not sure).

Now a trick on how to deactivate the Windows 7 license key:
start cmd with administrator privilege:
and type:
slmgr /dlv
This will show information regarding activation,
The most important is Activation ID since we will use it on deactivation.
Now for deactivating we type:
slmgr /upk Activation ID String

The only thing left to do is to get a original DVD with Windows 7 kit.

 

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LCF-AT

Hi again,

so I dont wanna buy the OS from any strange source etc so if I check the net then I find all over these cheap offers.Here a example German site..

http://www.billiger.de/show/produkt/163500517-Microsoft-Windows-7-Home-Premium-SP1-64-Bit-OEM-DE.htm#offers

...almost 20 Euro + DVD etc.So is this offer good or trash?Oh so what do you mean about Online Key registering?So I thought if I buy the DVD then the key is inside of the box I should use to reg Win 7 during installing = done and ready to use without to have any internet access etc like XP.Do I think again wrong in that case?

Ok so I did buy two years ago my PC system I use now so normaly I dont wanna buy again a new PC system you know.

greetz

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evlncrn8

the 'doesnt support hardware virtualisation' is possibly because its turned off in the bios.... a lot of machines i've worked with had this 'feature' disabled

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Techlord

@evlncrn8 : Based on the pic shat she posted reg her CPU model, it does not have hardware virtualization as seen here ...

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ilya01
19 hours ago, LCF-AT said:

Hi again,

so I dont wanna buy the OS from any strange source etc so if I check the net then I find all over these cheap offers.Here a example German site..

http://www.billiger.de/show/produkt/163500517-Microsoft-Windows-7-Home-Premium-SP1-64-Bit-OEM-DE.htm#offers

...almost 20 Euro + DVD etc.So is this offer good or trash?Oh so what do you mean about Online Key registering?So I thought if I buy the DVD then the key is inside of the box I should use to reg Win 7 during installing = done and ready to use without to have any internet access etc like XP.Do I think again wrong in that case?

Ok so I did buy two years ago my PC system I use now so normaly I dont wanna buy again a new PC system you know.

greetz

This is NOT RETAIL license this is OEM.

After installation license you must resell pc to third-party person.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/is-it-ok-to-use-oem-windows-on-your-own-pc-dont-ask-microsoft/

 

i i think, what now already unreal buy retail version windows 7 at chip price. You can buy dvd in stores, which earlier bought their and sell now remains.

Edited by ilya01 (see edit history)

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LCF-AT

Hi again,

uhmmmm!Whats this for a BS about OEM?So these WIn versions are only for reseller!Great!So does it mean I cant do anything with that OEM versions if I do buy any 20 Euro DVD?I also dont like this OEM stuff only to use it on one and same computer only.Ok now I am officially pissed off.Such quark rules!Same stupid like ID dependencies.Everything not very user friendly.I have the ass card now.So I dont wanna use a OS what only works with hardware xy.Also dont wanna buy Win 7 or higher for 200 Euro or more to have a not OEM version.

Thanks for this info ilya01 and that seems to be the hidden hook for these cheap 20 Euro Win versions. :)

PS: I also have another PC system with installed Vista but if I connected the HDD from this PC on my PC Vista didnt start on  my PC.I think there is also a OEM versions used right.

greetz

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ilya01

If you want to buy os, you can buy win 10 in online store

Edited by ilya01 (see edit history)
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LCF-AT

Hi again,

I installed Win 7 32 bit and got some trial time where I can test it.All working ok so far but now I got a problem with the Windows updater so it seem not to work anymore and the searching for updates take a very long time till endless.On the net I found a lot same problem posts about that update function of Win 7.I also installed SP1 where Win 7 updater was working and later not anymore.Yesterday I downloaded a update package with 1 GB and installed all 288 updates what has taken some hours to install and in the hope that this will also fix the updater but updater still dosent work. :( So what is this again for a stupid MS problem?In my update list I got many entrys and some of them failed.Before I also got this error WindowsUpdate_8007000E.Has anyone a idea how to fix this to get updater working again?

greetz

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Techlord
4 hours ago, LCF-AT said:

Hi again,

I installed Win 7 32 bit and got some trial time where I can test it.All working ok so far but now I got a problem with the Windows updater so it seem not to work anymore and the searching for updates take a very long time till endless.On the net I found a lot same problem posts about that update function of Win 7.I also installed SP1 where Win 7 updater was working and later not anymore.Yesterday I downloaded a update package with 1 GB and installed all 288 updates what has taken some hours to install and in the hope that this will also fix the updater but updater still dosent work. :( So what is this again for a stupid MS problem?In my update list I got many entrys and some of them failed.Before I also got this error WindowsUpdate_8007000E.Has anyone a idea how to fix this to get updater working again?

greetz

This (Update for Windows 7 (KB3102810)) will probably solve your issue....

This is for the 32-bit Windows 7 SP1 version...

Regards

 

 

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Orthodox

 @LCF-AT

You need to register windows7 and the best way is to use Windows.7.Loader.eXtreme.Edition.v3.502-NAPALUM and your updates will work. You can even update to windows 10 if you like.

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Teddy Rogers

Personally I would install Windows 10 and be done with it, run Win XP, Win7, etc. in virtual machines if you really need to use them. As @evlncrn8 already stated above check your bios to see if any virtualisation features have been disabled that your CPU supports so your virtual machines do not need to run in binary translation. What CPU do you have?

This is a bit old now, still worthy of a read if you are using VMWare...

http://www.vmware.com/pdf/ws7_performance.pdf

Guides for installing guest OS's (like XP) in VMWare...

http://partnerweb.vmware.com/GOSIG/home.html
http://www.vmware.com/content/dam/digitalmarketing/vmware/en/pdf/techpaper/vmware-view-xp-deployment-guide.pdf

Some other links giving a brief virtualisation overview...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_virtualization
http://www.unf.edu/~sahuja/cloudcourse/Fullandparavirtualization.pdf

Ted.

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Techlord

@Teddy Rogers :

LCF-AT has already posted the screenshot which gives details of her processor in the first post in this thread, which is Intel Pentium D 3.00 GHz :)

Based on that fact, I have already checked and advised in another post above, in reply to @evlncrn8 's post , that her CPU does not support virtualization natively...

Guess you have missed those two points ? :D

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Teddy Rogers

What family of Pentium D, Smithfield or Presler? Presler family of CPU's come with virtualisation...

Ted.

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Techlord

Thank you @Teddy Rogers for the response. It's nice to know that we have such an able and knowledgeable admin leading our forum. You have a very deep knowledge of these technicalities ! :)

In any case, off the top of my head, based on the combinations seen in that screenshot and the errors that she reported got thrown, I settled for the idea that it could be a Pentium D 830 that she could be possibly possessing ...

Cheers

 

 

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kao

That's funny, it looks like only some of Presler CPUs supported virtualization. :) Given the CPU name and frequency, it's a 1 in 3 chance LCF-AT has the right one: http://ark.intel.com/compare/27513,27517,27518

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